Episode 8 - The Future of Motorcycling

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In this episode we discuss the future of motorcycles and the potential technologies that could replace the internal combustion engine as we know it. 

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Transcript

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;25;07

And we are rolling. Welcome back to two dudes talking motorcycles. I am one of the dudes and my name is Gleb And you can find me on social media at @gleblapham, on TikTok and Instagram and YouTube. And I Mitch the other one. You can find me on Instagram, @meech2dbeech on Instagram, and I think that's all I have right now.

00;00;25;14 - 00;00;46;29

Okay. For motorcycle related motorcycle. Yeah. And today. And yeah. Welcome back And thank you again for for listening and tuning in. And it feels like it's been a while because it has been for us. Yeah, because we recorded the last two episodes, like fairly back to back, back to back. And we took a break and now we're back.

00;00;47;01 - 00;01;13;22

But for you guys, it's been the same amount of time. So thank you again for listening and our numbers keep going up. So we appreciate that a whole lot. Yeah. Today, our big topic is going to be the future of motorcycling and we're going to be talking about hydrogen fuel and electric bikes and how kind of like the internal combustion engine is kind of, you know, not in the best of light at the moment, especially if you look at car manufacturers.

00;01;13;22 - 00;01;31;04

And those kind of trends tend to translate to motorcycles as it's like technology or something just keeps moving forward. Yeah, it's this weird thing. I don't know, I think they should just stick a giant V8 on the motorcycle. Yeah. Yeah, I think they did. I'm sure they did, as always, before we jump into that, we're going to cover some updates and some news.

00;01;31;07 - 00;01;51;24

And once again, we have a brand new bike that I got to ride. You rode last year? Yep. And we also participated in the Distinguished Gentleman's Ride, which that's what our last episode talked about. And it was my first time. It was your third time. Yeah. Yeah. And I had an amazing experience. It was so much fun to dress up.

00;01;51;24 - 00;02;13;00

First of all, I looked hella dapper and I absolutely love that. And it was so cool to rivals like Group of People for a good cause, and to see all these classic motorcycles, modern bikes, all sorts of different motorcycles, and some very well-dressed people just riding around Salt Lake. I absolutely love that. Yeah, it's always a lot of fun.

00;02;13;00 - 00;02;38;05

This year was really was really good. Good turnout, as always. Good people. So and shout out to Mitch here because he raised the most money in the state of Utah which. Good job there and thanks. Thanks to everybody who donated to help means I, I guess I was just a central point for it. But again it's is everyone who got behind me and the cause to donate to bring about funds for these causes for men's prostate cancer and mental health.

00;02;38;05 - 00;03;05;16

So yeah so again thank you to everybody who donated whether it was me or glib to anybody. Thank you. It's awesome. So thank you all for that. And for the second bit of news, I borrowed a motorcycle for the distinguished gentleman's ride, because for those of you who have watched this podcast is beginning I Ride the Tiger 900 Rally Triumph Tiger 900 Rally, which is a very modern giant that is pretty big, tall, modern looking adventure bike.

00;03;05;16 - 00;03;33;14

It's not very vintage yet. It's not very vintage yet. One day I'll get there. But I wanted to really I'm an aesthetic person. I wanted to fit that distinguished gentleman's esthetic. So I borrowed a I totally forgot to put a picture up of the charger. So here it is for those of you watching on YouTube. But I borrowed a triumph Street twin from our good friend Dave, who just bought a Street Triple of the older ones.

00;03;33;16 - 00;03;52;27

So he let me use his street twin for this ride. And I absolutely loved this bike. It was such a blast to ride and at first I wasn't sure what I was, what to expect. I only had five years as a lower power than what I have, but I really enjoyed it. It's such a smooth and easy to ride.

00;03;52;27 - 00;04;08;01

Bike. Yeah. I was going to ask you because again, this is a bike that both of us got to have like an extended period of time with not just like an hour or 30 minutes with. So like, I want to get into that a little bit with you, but you go ahead and finish like what you were going over because I had some questions for you.

00;04;08;04 - 00;04;34;00

Perfect. So about that bike. Yeah. See how I think whether we agree with it or not? Yes. So so what I really liked about it is, one, it's a super approachable bike. It's very easy to get your legs over it. And I'm a tall person, so I don't really have a hard time getting on most bikes, but it does feel very confidence inspiring when you can like put both your feet on the ground and being that low to the ground and also having that lower center of gravity that comes from a shorter bike like that.

00;04;34;03 - 00;04;53;17

It just felt very it just felt very good to sit on that and it just felt like I could throw this bike back and forth and it would do what I wanted to do. It was fairly comfortable. I thought it was a little cramped on the I'm six foot one, so it's a little smaller, but overall, like it feels great, accelerates super smoothly, it runs very smooth.

00;04;53;17 - 00;05;25;10

And even with only five gears, which I was a little worried about at higher speeds, it has so much power. There's these are very long gears. And basically, like if you're on the freeway, no matter what, you have so much more power. It just doesn't run out. It doesn't feel like it does. So overall, I really enjoyed this little bike and it made me want to get now this bike, it made me want to get in Bonneville T120 even more because it has a similar style, but a bit more, a bit more power and a bit more features and stuff.

00;05;25;10 - 00;05;49;20

And those classic good locks on those modern classic triumphs are just phenomenal. Yeah, And I absolutely. I really enjoyed this bike, so thanks, Dave, for letting me borrow it. He's a real one. So now it's like, Yeah, because I got to have like it for a few days as well. Yeah. Year when I watched it for him. So that's I was very surprised with that as well as like, like, oh you think like oh five gears, that's like, that's not enough.

00;05;49;26 - 00;06;05;22

You know, we have to have six gears. Everything is six gears, you know, But you get out there and those gears are so long, right? Oh, yeah. And you're like, oh, I never I never wanted a sixth gear on that bike. No, no. So it's even the going like 80 miles an hour on the highway in fifth gear.

00;06;05;28 - 00;06;19;18

You still have plenty of power. Yeah. So you might pass someone if you needed to, which was awesome. Right. And then so I was going to ask you is like, do you think there would have been a benefit for putting a six gear on that bike as it is? Like, how fast did you get going? Did you max it out or anything?

00;06;19;18 - 00;06;42;11

Like, I did not max it out, but I got it going fairly quick, maybe like well over the speed limit and no, and even going. I took it up, up, up on a ride through the mountains. Well, I had a while I had it. And even going uphill like a pretty gradual hill at like 60 miles an hour, I could still feel like I had so much more power to can give.

00;06;42;14 - 00;06;57;25

Yeah, I did. And it doesn't have a tech ometer on it, which I wish it did. Yeah, because I like to see where the red line is. And while I was accelerating at one point, there was a certain spot where it just cuts the power off. So you don't it hits the rev limiter, but you can't see it.

00;06;57;25 - 00;07;16;06

So it's kind of hard to tell where that is. Yeah, I'm sure it's one of those things you kind of get used to over time as you have the bike, but it would have been kind of nice to know where that power band. Yeah is. But then I just kicked into second gear and it just kept going. And that first gear is from like, as up to like 40 some miles an hour.

00;07;16;12 - 00;07;37;13

It's crazy. It's a crazy long gear. It runs great. Yeah, it does run great. I really enjoyed it as it Now following up on that, what I really what I want to ask you to because what I notice, because we know we have we have taller bikes are more top heavy. Yeah. Like for me I felt that it was very much like having the bikes just felt more manageable in weight I guess.

00;07;37;16 - 00;08;04;24

Yeah. Slow speed on everything is just like, all the way down low, your down low, you know? So you're not like toppling all this weight on the, on like these two wheels, you know, some speeds and stuff. So did you notice that versus yours as well. 800%. Yeah. It just felt like it just felt like almost easier to rider because it was so much shorter and just feel felt so much more manageable because because all that weight is low.

00;08;04;24 - 00;08;34;29

So it's easy to like take it up off the kickstand, like roll it back and stuff. Despite the fact that it's actually heavier than my Tiger 900 oh by Oh, that's right. You did. Yeah. Yeah. So I looked at the specs and this is all dry weight and my the Tiger 100 does have a larger fuel tank so what it might be a closer to even but the Tiger 900 is actually like I want to say it was like 20, 20, £30 lighter than than the the St twin and I was quite surprised.

00;08;34;29 - 00;08;52;21

I was like, oh, man, this bike doesn't feel like it's heavier, but until I I've wiped it down for the ride and rolled out of my driveway or pushed out of my drive and I was like, okay, I can actually feel like while pushing it uphill, but not while just moving it around. While with my bike, it's more of the opposite, like uphill.

00;08;52;21 - 00;09;09;02

I can feel like, okay, that's actually a lighter, but it's more top heavy. So it feels like if you're not careful, it can topple. Yeah, much quicker. So I really like the size and the weight of it because it made me feel like it's just super, super approachable. And yeah, I think this is one of those bikes that would be fantastic.

00;09;09;02 - 00;09;30;21

If you're a beginner rider and you want something to grow into because it does have a good bit of power. It's 900 calories, got plenty of power, but it's also so manageable and easy to easy to ride that you can kind of grow into, grow into it without going too crazy. And it's not so like loaded with like a bunch of features and tech that's going to make it super expensive.

00;09;30;21 - 00;09;49;03

You know, that's what I noticed. I was like, I was thinking about it leading up to this recording, this episode, and like when we talk about bikes that we recommend, I don't think we ever really mentioned the street or the street twin as a beginner bike. But honestly, I think after like being reminded of riding that bike and seeing it again.

00;09;49;03 - 00;10;08;11

So yes, it's a wonderful bike. Like I think I agree. Yeah. I mean I think that could be, that could easily be like a one and done bike depending on what type of riding you want to do. Yeah. Yeah. You don't want to spend that. Everybody is expensive but they're not going to be like t 120 or tiger or scrambler or Harley prices, you know, like you're going up and above.

00;10;08;18 - 00;10;30;19

I think this will make a fantastic beginner bike. If you want something more classic looking. This this is this is a great this a great bike to go or even if you just like one is like, oh, I want a ride, I want a motorcycle, but I don't want to have to upgrade. I don't want to have to like I don't care about off roading or whatnot, you know, it's yeah, if you just want a bike that's like, this takes care of my entire motorcycle.

00;10;30;19 - 00;10;46;18

It's this is all I need. And I love it. Like, I think that I think that checks a lot of boxes off for Jake. I do agree. The only two things that I kind of wish they had was one would be cruise control, because after having that on my bike, I could not I would not get a bike without it because I'm just too spoiled.

00;10;46;18 - 00;11;01;05

Yeah. And if you're planning on riding long distance heated grips, I think I was. Yeah, really nice to have. But this is also one of those bikes that's just, you know, you hop on and you maybe carve up a canyon or to take some twisty roads and then stop by a coffee shop. And you sit there and look at the whole.

00;11;01;08 - 00;11;24;19

Yeah. Fit the whole look of the coffee shop just on that bike. Yeah. And I think that's what makes it such, such a fantastic, fantastic bike. Yeah. For like just being all around. I remember you talked to about, you mentioned like the difference with having your windscreen with not having it. Oh, yes, yes. Coming from an adventure bike that's fully faired and it's got this big windscreen on it.

00;11;24;22 - 00;11;41;28

The biggest thing I noticed was that like I can really feel the wind pushing me back because we wanted to right up little Cottonwood Canyon that was cold. I was like, Yeah, welcome to my world. Glad I don't have a bitcoin screen. I'm just like, Okay, now I know what you feel like, you know? And I could show some empathy next time we ride somewhere because oh, time.

00;11;41;28 - 00;12;13;26

Jeez, because my bike keeps me nice and toasty. I got this little cocoon of air and nothing else going on. Plus, I got those vents blowing hot air right into my brain to my knees. So it's like a heater on wheels that. But the STS one was not. It was pretty chilly on it. Yeah, but yeah, overall I think I think it was a fantastic bike and like I was saying, without the windscreen and the fairings, I was wearing my adventure helmet which has gone and I noticed I was catching a lot of air and it was much better without the peek on.

00;12;13;28 - 00;12;35;24

But then I had a random whistling sound and that because one of the vents you can't converse with the peak off on the showy stick some chewing gum in there for gaffer stage. Yeah, but overall, yeah, it was a fantastic little bike. I love that. Yeah. Now. So I just want to like, as we talked about, I really want to throw out like, honestly, I think I have to like, upend my suggestions and say, I think that's like a perfect, like all around what they want to do.

00;12;35;28 - 00;12;54;01

Like us. I would say perfect all around. Unless you want to do like some really super long rides, long rides of offroad, offroad, you know, or if that's just not your style. Yeah, you know, but overall, I think it's a fantastic like and I think I'm glad I got to ride it. Yeah. And I don't know about you like we haven't ridden at1 hundred.

00;12;54;01 - 00;13;10;27

We talk about the ten and 20. We swim for that pretty hard, you know, But we do. But I think like even like the T 100 could set that too. If you want a more neutral sitting position. I do agree with that because like the street window's a little bit more. It's not a sporty position, but the knees are higher up your feet further back.

00;13;10;27 - 00;13;30;11

Yeah, and I that was one of the big thing I noticed after I dropped the bike off and grab mine is that I'm like, oh my God, my knees feel so much better on this because it's a much more upright seating position. Yeah, but yeah, I love the no good and I think, Oh yeah, you mentioned it too is I think like when you try some other like regular bikes.

00;13;30;11 - 00;13;48;01

I think all the bikes we've been riding lately have like they've been pretty top end premium. Yeah. Yeah we do, we do have spoiled. Yeah. We are a little spoiled, especially considering we both own like pretty premium bikes as well. But there are a couple of demos that we notice coming up in the area for some more cheaper and more like approachable bikes.

00;13;48;01 - 00;14;15;20

So we're going to go try those out and hopefully get some opinions on those and in the next hopefully next episode. But anyways, I think it's time to move on to our main topic. I agree. And you want to take it away. Yeah. So like you said, we're gonna be talking about the future of motorcycling. Mainly. We're going to be focusing on the, on the engine aspect of that, you know, So we've talked about tech and advancements and riding tech and all that stuff.

00;14;15;22 - 00;14;41;05

That's actually going to be on like the motors and the engines, like you said, like the combustion engine for all sorts of vehicles is maybe it's seeing its last two days. I don't know. It's it feels like it's on its way out. And I understand the why. I know it's like it's better for the environment and we're at the point where it's becoming like, okay, we need to do something because every summer has been hotter than the last.

00;14;41;05 - 00;15;00;23

It's terrible. But I also say this as a person who loves cars, who loves like that raw feeling of the engine, the power, the noise, the smell, like the heat and everything like that. Like, like that. You know, if you ever written in, like an old school muscle car. Yeah. You feel all those things and it just feels good.

00;15;00;23 - 00;15;21;07

If you're a car person, you would understand that kind of stuff. Yeah. You just like you feel that rumble and the growl. Exactly. The pole, you know, it's just. Yeah. So an electric motors, they don't really have that kind of same feel to it, but it's also a different feel. They have their own advantages and disadvantages and they have, you know, it's a different feel.

00;15;21;12 - 00;15;50;04

And this is just something that we're used to because this is what we we've known until very recently, where electric cars have become a big thing. And now that electric technology trickle down to motorcycles starting to. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And like, so I have never ridden in an electric car. I've never ridden electric motorcycle. But things I've noticed, just as we were getting ready for this episode, I was thinking about it and like I talked to Electric Car guys, sort of people who just have electric cars and like, Oh, it's, it's awesome.

00;15;50;04 - 00;16;07;24

It's amazing. I'm saving so much gas. It's comfortable, it's quiet and they love those features. But then I go and talk to people who have ridden electric motorcycle and I just like like, yeah, it's like not to put words in their mouth. The like from what they tell me about it, it's like there's no, like, engine feedback. It's cool.

00;16;07;24 - 00;16;28;25

WHISTLE Yeah, but then like, you know, there's no clutch to play with. It's just go, stop goes. Yeah. And then your range is lower. So it's like you're missing a lot of experience on a motorcycle, on electric motorcycle. Yes, it does. For the same reasons. People love their electric cars. Yeah, know, and I think it comes down to a point of like, why do we ride and why do we drive?

00;16;28;27 - 00;16;48;15

For most of us, driving is more of like it's something we have to do, especially living here in the States. If you're an international listener, you're you might have a country with better public transportation, which congratulations. Yeah. We do not, especially not here in Utah. And you basically need a car to get anywhere from your house, like anywhere you want to go.

00;16;48;15 - 00;17;09;07

And yeah, a reasonable amount of time because doing anything else will take so long and super inefficient. But that's beside the point. So a lot of cars are basically like appliances. You need one to get on with your day. Yeah, if you have to sit in rush hour for like, you know, one hour to work to one hour back, you don't want to be sitting in a cell to be sitting in a shit box.

00;17;09;11 - 00;17;33;07

Yeah, you want to have like something with nice seats like climate control and something you don't don't hate being inside of. Yeah, but for motorcycles here in the States just upset. It's a very leisure we can base hobby for a lot of people it's freeing I think everyone on motorcycles I it's just a freeing experience here like you know it's like when you're if you're like with us we go on a rides it's like, oh, we're not driving through the mountains.

00;17;33;07 - 00;17;57;18

Like, we're in the mountains. We're in the mountains. Like, I agree, you know, and the the feel of the engine, the heat, the vibration, the noise, all of that adds to that experience. You feel like you're with the machine instead of just something like something you're using to get to from point A to point B, you're you're there, you're on top of it, you're exposed.

00;17;57;20 - 00;18;23;00

And it just feels like it's all almost a raw experience compared to, you know, even driving in the gasoline car. Yeah, Yeah. No, it's like combustion is more fun. It is more fun. Yeah. Like, it could be because, you know, that's all we've known. That's all we've grown up with. And, you know, in the future, like future generations, they may just only grow up with, like, electric engines and they'll think that's, like, the coolest shit out there.

00;18;23;00 - 00;18;42;23

Yeah, that's all they would know. And like, maybe we need to, like, ride an electric motorcycles to, like, get our own opinion of it. But that's just what I've heard from people who've ridden electric motorcycles, that they're just kind of met from as far as it's I mean, you're still like on a fast and she has So Gleb of what do we do if we if we love combustion?

00;18;42;23 - 00;19;06;21

And that's like most of the experience of riding a motorcycle. And EV is not going to reach half that. What what are our options? Gleb It's hydrogen. Oh, wow. The mysterious hydrogen. So hydrogen has been in the talks to be a one of the alternative fuel sources for a while. And certain car brands like Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi, I think, is one of the works.

00;19;06;24 - 00;19;34;28

They have hydrogen fuel cell cars. I think in the US they're only available in California because that's the only state has got hydrogen stations. But the beauty of it is that that's kind of like a almost the best of both worlds between electric and internal combustion and is that the fact that you still get the the fast fill up time, you get the range and you have no emissions other than water vapor.

00;19;35;01 - 00;19;59;20

So it's almost like this like unicorn of a fuel. Yeah, but it's that, it's a unicorn. It's hard to. Yeah. And the beauty of it too is, you know, like because it's combustion, there's not all, there's, there are some tweaks or some major important little things that would make it work. But in terms of like building understanding a combustion engine, it's not going to be that different, right?

00;19;59;21 - 00;20;22;02

Yeah, So much fun. A great article on motorcycle News.com that talked about the hydrogen engine and it talked basically about how it's there's two ways to go about using hydrogen and one the first way and this is the way that we currently have, and that's the fuel cell. So although the fuel cell is the prototype, well, that's. Well, I meant for cars.

00;20;22;03 - 00;20;50;12

Oh, you're I'm sorry. Like the fuel cell vehicles, you're the prototype as a way of filling it up. But basically the fuel cell is you pumped a car full of hydrogen. And what it does is it stores it in there and it uses the hydrogen as it reacts with oxygen. We're getting very creative electricity to create electricity, which powers an electric motor and that's basically what an EV does, except this is using hydrogen versus battery versus a bunch of lithium batteries.

00;20;50;13 - 00;21;09;25

Yeah, And hydrogen is very abundant. It's found in seawater, which we have a I think I've heard we had a large collection of on this planet. You know, I live here in the mountains. I don't know anything about that. We have a salt lake right there. Oh, yeah. They can use it. Yeah, it's all gone anyways. Just, just take it.

00;21;09;27 - 00;21;30;12

But, but the problem is, is that it's super energy intensive to get that hydrogen out of seawater. Yeah. It takes a lot of power, It takes a lot of energy and it costs a lot of money at the moment. But as technology improve, as efficiency improves, hopefully that we can see that in the future. But basically that's what it does.

00;21;30;12 - 00;21;53;09

And the prototype that Mitch was talking about is it's a cylinder. So instead of going to a gas station to fill up your hydrogen car like a tank, you basically like swap out a cylinder, which takes up a lot less space because they can condense the hydrogen in there a lot more. You basically take it out of your car and put a fresh one in and then rinse and repeat.

00;21;53;10 - 00;22;11;19

So almost like changing a battery in like your remote. Yeah. Or if you like, or if you've seen any sci fi series like most spaceships use like fuel cells. Yeah. You don't like. Exactly. You know, and ironic that they also use hydrogen fuel cells. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So see this? This is like sci fi is based on reality, and the future is here.

00;22;11;19 - 00;22;41;12

The future is now. But like I said, the problem is with that is it's super energy intensive, which is why it has a game like damage, much prominence, but a lot of car manufacturers are working on a lot of ways to improve that. Toyota's being one of the biggest leaders in that. And the other thing that this article mentioned is that, um, the other way to use hydrogen is as an internal combustion source, and that's the one that we want to focus on today.

00;22;41;12 - 00;23;14;07

Yeah, because that's the one where the fun part of motorcycling still stays. Yeah. You know, and that's what we were basically talking about because they could like, do that, make a hydrogen combustion engine, put that on a motorcycle. Then we get to keep we get to, you know, not use up all these fossil fuels are like, you know, I hear they're bad, you know, all these things that are bad for our environment and for our lungs, you know, And if we could have the if we had the same experience, same exhaust note.

00;23;14;07 - 00;23;41;08

Yeah. And then we're at least something similar. Yeah. And then our only byproduct is water. That sounds great to me. Sounds fine to me. Yeah. The water vapor. Yeah. What, like, Yeah. And that technology is even further away, Unfortunately for now. Then it's very old cells. It is a very cool thing to think about. And I think that article mentioned that, um, that Honda and General Motors, they, this one's on fuel cells, but they're actually building a new version of the CRV.

00;23;41;08 - 00;24;10;01

They use fuel cells. But when it comes to motorcycling, we have the Japanese, the four big Japanese brands. They're kind of leading the effort to to research and try and develop a hydrogen motorcycle and a hydrogen motorcycle and internal combustion. Hydrogen. Sorry. Yeah, internal combustion. Yeah. But still has that similar kind of feel that a gas motorcycle would have.

00;24;10;07 - 00;24;26;23

Yeah. Because if you think about it, it would just there wouldn't be again like that many differences from a from a traditional combustion engine now like you're going to have a gas combust. It's going to drive your pistons. Yep. You know you're going to get that rumble and vibration from it from the motor. So and yeah, the exhaust.

00;24;26;26 - 00;24;51;28

Yeah. You know, and and sexy things come down the road future technologies advance hydrogen becomes because there's an abundance of it if there is a way to produce it and you know it could be a lot cheaper and more available than than fossil fuels because you know you just extract the seawater to separate the hydrogen out, dump the water back part does become water that I'm not a chemist side.

00;24;51;28 - 00;24;58;27

I know exactly how it works. Look, I'm only here for the Motor City. That's a good call.

00;24;59;00 - 00;25;30;13

But so Kawasaki, they actually kind of developed like an idea or. Yeah, they started working on a project and it's based on their Ninja H2 engine and it's still current in the same article. And they're trying to basically adapt that engine to use hydrogen as a fuel. Yeah. And so with that, with Kawasaki using the reason why they chose the H2 is because another obstacle we run into is internal combustion hydrogen.

00;25;30;15 - 00;25;51;16

So we need a lot more air intake. So you'd have to have some sort of forced air injection because I think in the article, yeah, you need they need basically like three times as much oxygen as like a as a gasoline combustion engine does right now. But the H2, how that engine's built and why it's a very fast bike is it has something like that.

00;25;51;16 - 00;26;30;18

It has a forced air. Yeah. Supercharger Yeah. Supercharger Yeah. So it's like the H2 is just kind of like, already set up to be like, Hey, let's tweak this because it's and we'll use panniers as the bit to hold the cells or the fuel or the fuel. Yeah, fuel, you know, And so like it's, that's awesome. Yeah. It's really cool that they were able to like do something like that and it makes me hopeful And I'm glad that the Japanese manufacturers are, you know, taking their that taking the charge on that to come up with something because I would very much love to see the internal combustion engine preserved.

00;26;30;21 - 00;26;50;24

Yeah. But in a way that also doesn't harm the environment. Yeah. As much as a gasoline engine does. Yeah. And I, you know, and I've thought about that like, not necessarily for this episode, but in the past it's like, Oh yeah, like fossil fuels aren't really like the best solution and they're, we can't keep this going as it is, you know, it's like, but man, I love my engines.

00;26;50;24 - 00;27;27;17

I love, you know, I love the engine of the motorcycle. I like old school muscle cars. Yeah, I like a lot of new cars. I have like the huge like the 12 or V8 engines because they they sound good and they feel good, and I'm going to miss that one. Yeah, most of them are probably gone. And but if there was a way to preserve it and this isn't in this article, but I remember reading this a while back and I don't remember where, but Porsche is also one of the manufacturers that's kind of leading development on an alternative fuel internal combustion engine.

00;27;27;19 - 00;27;50;12

I think their specific one they had to one was also something to do with hydrogen trying to use one of their current engines, kind of like what Kawasaki is doing, trying to use one of the current engines to see if it could be adapted to use hydrogen or the other one. I think they focus on a lot of like biofuels, things that come from, you know, plants and things like that.

00;27;50;13 - 00;28;05;24

Yeah. So it's the development is their companies are trying to preserve it, but it's still not kind of a wide prominence and it probably won't be for a while and probably not you know and like and like what I was thinking about too, it's just like it's like where I was, I was having like that conflict in my minds.

00;28;05;25 - 00;28;20;04

Like, well, I love my engines, but I know this is bad, you know? But at the same time, it's like, well, why does it have to be one or the other? And then we you know, you brought up hydrogen. That's when I that's when we started looking into this. I'm like, there's no longer a conflict that could be off like this right now.

00;28;20;09 - 00;28;40;19

Yeah, this is like the most viable option. So I think if the hype is there, so the funding keeps going in these big companies. If you can get the motorcycle communities to realize, like I can still keep my passion, you know, and life going like and my motorcycle life, but I can do it without fossil fuel, that would be awesome, right?

00;28;40;19 - 00;29;01;00

Yeah, I would love that. Yeah. And I don't I don't know. Again, I'm not a mechanic, not a chemist, but an engineer. I would imagine that perhaps like because you're burning your. Yeah, you're burning hydrogen and making water engines can be a lot cleaner. Oh yeah. Yeah. Because you don't have that suit and everything building up and stuff and I could be wrong.

00;29;01;00 - 00;29;18;17

I don't know. Yeah. I mean, you start to have oil, you have to have some sort of lubricant. Yeah, You know, but in terms of burning it off and spitting it out through an exhaust might be better. Like, I don't see like, there's no reason why the motorcycle in my mind, I don't see a reason why the motorcycle community couldn't be behind this.

00;29;18;18 - 00;29;42;28

Oh, you're Harleys. If you're Triumph's your ninja. I like all the stuff. It could be the same. Just cleaner. Yeah, and I think that would be great. And I really hope that this idea of a hydrogen combustion engine. Yeah. Keeps on progressing both in motorcycles and in cars because I'm pretty sure those performance car manufacturers like Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari.

00;29;43;01 - 00;30;06;11

I'm pretty sure they also don't want to lose that feel that way. So that's that's your heritage unique. Yeah. Is those engines because with electric power as cool as it is to have that instant torque and crazy fast acceleration that you get an electric car or like an electric motorcycle, it just doesn't feel the same as a internal combustion engine.

00;30;06;13 - 00;30;28;25

Yeah. And that's just I mean, that's I wouldn't say it's a fact because, you know, feelings are objective, but like, it's how we most, most car people feel. Yeah. Like well they it's just not it's just it doesn't have the same kind of feel to it. I've driven a couple of electric cars before. I've driven the market, the Mustang Mach-e, I've driven the Ford Lightning, one of my friends as a little Chevy Bolt.

00;30;28;25 - 00;30;48;23

And those are pretty basic vehicles other than the Mach-e, which is a little bit more performance oriented. Yeah. And that none of them feel the same as driving a regular car. And I've driven a regular V-8 Mustang and then the Mach-e and which one's more fun? The V8 is way more fun because it has it makes noise. Yeah.

00;30;48;23 - 00;31;08;18

And it has a rumble to it. Yeah. And a lot of EVs, just in my opinion, they just feel kind of sterile performance wise on paper. They feel they. They're great. Yeah. Yeah. They will accelerate any gas engine out there, but it doesn't feel as good. It doesn't feel as good to do so. Yeah. An electric car. Yeah.

00;31;08;20 - 00;31;25;27

And it's not to dog on like electric car owners or anything like that because like I said, most cars are appliances. They're there to get you from point A to point B And like what I was saying, like, you know how I would you know, I said before, it's like, you know, in most cases you're what you're looking for out of your car.

00;31;26;05 - 00;31;43;07

You don't want out of your motorcycle. No. Well, you know, and vice versa. So it's like it would make sense that like, oh, like my commuter car or like my weekend toy or car, you know, like it's ev it's nice and smooth. It's quiet, it's relaxing. Yeah, it's advanced, you know, and it's clean. I don't want that in a motorcycle.

00;31;43;13 - 00;32;09;19

No, I mean, like, I want clean. Don't me wrong. Oh, yeah. Like, you know, I, but it just, it just to me just adds up as to, like, why maybe electric isn't the best option for motorcycles. Yeah. Which is actually I think is a great segway to talk about which ones or sorry a great segway to talk about electric motorcycles which is in addition to hydrogen that's that could be the potential future of motorcycles.

00;32;09;21 - 00;32;35;06

And that one is something a little bit more realized because we're we have them we have electric motorcycles. We have like the oh, excuse me, we're drinking beer. Drinking beer. Uh, so hide your kids, but don't let your kids see it. You have the zero brand, you have the Livewire, which is an offshoot of. That's right. Harley Davidson.

00;32;35;08 - 00;32;53;23

Or they used to be like, owned by Harley Davidson. Oh, yeah. They have its own brand. Yeah. I think BMW has like an electric scooter. Yeah. They've got something, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so. Oh, and Triumph's, they have the new one. Yeah. No. Yeah, they announced that's not too long ago. I'm glad you brought that up, because I totally forgot.

00;32;53;26 - 00;33;19;12

But. So they're already out there. And the biggest limitation that we keep hearing, or at least I keep hearing, pop up, is the range and the charge time. And if you're familiar with motorcycles, I'm sure you've heard of a long way or a long way round. So they did a series, a long way up. They drove from Patagonia to L.A. on a pair of electric, a modified electric Harley.

00;33;19;15 - 00;33;53;17

These are Livewire Livewire motorcycles. And you can see kind of like the limitations of those pop up because the range is very limited. They take a long time to charge and the charging infrastructure is just not there yet in most developed countries. I mean, you got countries like Norway where it's like 80% of vehicles are electric and yeah, they got their stuff sorted out and we have like over the last like the big infrastructure bill that passed money to kind of build more electric infrastructure, electric infrastructure and charging stations, but it's just not there yet.

00;33;53;20 - 00;34;19;18

And as motorcycles, we don't really ride through areas that are frequented by travelers. Yeah. And don't really have any kind of charging network. They have a gas station maybe if we're lucky some and those are tend to be pretty far apart. Yeah. And a lot of these bikes they have I think what the zero has well they've just 80 miles of range, just under 100 miles or something like that.

00;34;19;18 - 00;34;47;10

Yeah. It's not a lot of range and it still takes time to charge which kind of a lot of times like which kind of diminishes the being able to use them. The free long rides. Yeah. Yeah. And unless you're commuting to work and back or just around town, it's still not enough. Well then something that that came up in that and like the long way up you know, was like the you have the insulation problem, electric vehicles you know like it gets cold in Norway in places.

00;34;47;10 - 00;35;06;01

Yeah I've heard. You know it's but so like but the cold really affects batteries. It does And what these guys experience on those bikes when they rode on the source like the most southern tip of South America was like the cold was killing their range like really bad And but then once they got to a warmer area, they were fine.

00;35;06;06 - 00;35;33;06

They were fine, but their ends are dirt. And these are just like these were big bikes. So they had pretty large batteries and they were prototypes and they were prototypes. So but it was still not quite enough range to, you know, let them keep going without long, long, long periods of stopping to charge those bikes up. And oh, I was going to throw in too, as I was back that cold versus how the bikes perform versus like the rivian trucks.

00;35;33;06 - 00;35;56;28

So they had their too. Yeah, the trucks did fine in the cold. The trucks did. They were insulated. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's in my mind that's like, well maybe like that's another check against electric for a motorcycle. Yeah. You know, because I mean it's much easier inside a car. Well, you're outside. Yeah. Motorcycle's exposed. That's like the whole thing and, well, I think it could be great for maybe like, local commuting and just around town.

00;35;56;28 - 00;36;14;00

It's not something that I could see being used for, like, long rides, because even from, like, getting from here to Idaho, for example, for us, that's over a hundred miles right there. Easy. That's a that's going to be like a four or five hour charge. Yeah. We would not be able to do that on electric motorcycle. Yeah. There's not a currently available.

00;36;14;02 - 00;36;43;07

Yeah. Because not only is that far away we're riding through the mountains were riding uphill. I guess. I don't think it'd be affected by altitude as much. Yeah, there is tremendous. I guess so. There's that, There's that. Yeah. But going uphill takes a lot more power. So yeah, like, I just don't see them being as viable unless and I have this in notes, unless they can improve battery technology to either fit more power into a smaller battery.

00;36;43;09 - 00;37;08;21

Yeah. Or increase the charge time significantly so you can charge up a motorcycle or an electric car or anything like that. And like 10 minutes or less versus like the the hours or, you know, the Superchargers for like Teslas and stuff. And like they still take like 20 to 40 minutes depending on where you are. Yeah. If they can be reduced to less than 10 minutes I think that would open more people up to them.

00;37;08;25 - 00;37;29;00

Yeah. And I'm like wait around for an hour while you're buying gifts for juice, you know? So the motorcycle would be very often because they can't do small lot of batteries on them because they take up so much weight and space. So electric motorcycles, I feel like, are much further off. I mean, of hydrogen. But yeah, they're closer than hydrogen in terms of what's out there now.

00;37;29;00 - 00;37;50;20

Yeah, but I don't think they're nearly going to be as viable or as accepted as electric cars simply because you've got the size limitations of how much batteries and how much how big of a motor you can put on the motorcycle. Yeah. So yeah, I mean that's the basically I was like thinking about those two is like you have exposure issues, you have the range issues, you know all those.

00;37;50;20 - 00;38;08;26

But I mean like there's, I'm sure they're still fun. I think they would be, like you said, a good city bike you know there or even just like a little weekend ride, you know, I mean they look cool. I've seen them around, you know, like I it's probably doesn't carry much weight is a statement because all motorcycles are fun.

00;38;08;26 - 00;38;27;24

But they look fun. They do look fun. And yeah, it's acceleration. Sounds like it'd be a blast. Yeah, that sounds awesome. A blast to do. But it's the feel. Yeah, it's the feel. And that's part of what motorcycle. What I love about motorcycling. I don't know how it makes you feel on a motorcycle. Maybe cyberpunk is someone's jam and that's what they want to feel, you know?

00;38;27;26 - 00;38;52;26

So that's. And that's totally fine. Yeah. You know, I could work sub one thing, though, for electric motorcycles. I could see them being very nice for as for like dual sport or Off-Road, I was going to say because the idea that you don't have to like fill it up, you can just like charge it at home, take it up into the mountains and still have the same kind of feel to it as a dirt, like a gas dirt bike.

00;38;52;28 - 00;39;13;22

Yeah, but electric, you know, it's quieter and, you know, not going to bother like hike people that are hiking or maybe camping. It's quieter, it's cleaner, it doesn't burn any fuel and oil. And you can take it up into the mountains on like a single track trail. I think that'd be kind of cool. No, I think so. That's yeah.

00;39;13;24 - 00;39;29;01

And we see those, too, that are like electric dirt bikes, like. Yeah, not like dirt motocross bikes, but there's like, electric mountain bikes, I should say. Yeah. You know, So yeah, totally. There's, there's reasons to have them out. There's no, in no way is any of this supposed to be like a discredit to their existence. No, no, no.

00;39;29;01 - 00;39;51;16

I think and I can see them being very useful for that purpose because I can think of, like ten different trails around where I live that I would love to take an electric motorcycle up on. Yeah. And then I'll have to deal with oil changes or the noise, the heat and stuff like that because it just gets pretty damn hot carburetors or carburetors or anything like that.

00;39;51;19 - 00;40;07;23

And, you know, I'm sure people like I'm sure there are people out there that are totally fine without stuff and that's what they like to feel. But for me personally, I'm like, Yeah, I totally would love an electric bike if I like, you know, let's say like 50 or 90 miles of range. I can write up a single track in the mountains and then creep back down.

00;40;08;00 - 00;40;26;03

And it's one less thing you have to put gas into. Yeah, that's true, because, you know, if you ever go dual sports or you're like you're a, you know, single cylinder moto cross bikes or even your mountain bikes are usually driving something that can carry them up to where you want to ride them. Yeah, that's going to take gas unless you can afford an electric truck.

00;40;26;05 - 00;40;47;12

Yeah. You know, and like, it's one less thing you have to like burn your money into gas on. Yeah. So I think if I were to buy like any kind of electric motorcycle, it would be a little dual sport or just a dirt bike. Yeah, but with electric motor versus a gas motor and yeah, I wouldn't feel the same.

00;40;47;15 - 00;41;07;16

But for how I ride and what I would use a for, I think I think that'd be a perfect solution. Yeah. I think so too. So if anyone wants to sponsor and send this one, we welcome that. But you probably won't hear this. Yeah, yeah, this could be us. But you know who can forward this to them and see if you can pull some strings for us?

00;41;07;16 - 00;41;31;13

No. We love trying things out and spreading the word. Like, I was actually really excited to do this episode, too, because I was like, Because I think that's going to be a that was a problem. A lot of electric cars face face to face, as you know. It's like if you can get people hyped about them, yeah, if you can get like the general population of motor enthusiasts and like, again, Beckwith, like the hydrogen combustion, internal hydrogen engines.

00;41;31;16 - 00;41;54;09

Yeah. Like what's the argument other Unless you really love gasoline. Yeah. You know, like, other than of course we would have to go into the whole topic of fueling stations and like it would and that's, yeah, the infrastructure I feel like for both electric or hydrogen is the biggest hiccup at the moment. Well, for hydrogen, it's the fact that we don't even have an engine, right.

00;41;54;09 - 00;42;10;02

Like a production in a production ready engine that we can put in the motorcycle. But it also comes with the infrastructure and the fuel because where are you going to fill up, Right. And how are you going to make the hydrogen if it's so costly to make at the moment? And how are you going to like figure all these things out?

00;42;10;08 - 00;42;33;15

But we figured it out once with gasoline. I'm sure we can figure it out in the future with hydrogen or electric. But my personal opinion and what I would like to see is I hope this hydrogen combustion engine works out and I hope it trickles down to cars, at least maybe like enthusiasts, performance cars and motorcycles alike. Yeah.

00;42;33;16 - 00;43;01;04

So we can still keep that feeling of having the internal combustion feel, the vibration, the rumble, Yeah, the heat and all that. But without having the side effect of releasing carbon into the atmosphere. And so yeah, so and that would be an awesome solution. No, like for sure. And like when you said to it's like, you know, at one point in history America didn't have gas stations out west like you or you were hard pressed.

00;43;01;04 - 00;43;18;06

Like, I think I even listen to a podcast like the first, like road trip across America. They had to like scrap and penny pinching dime carry gas cans with them because going from east to west like they were there, just gas was wasn't an option. Yeah. And this was a huge feat for them to pull off back then.

00;43;18;10 - 00;43;40;08

Yeah. And look at us now. Yeah. Right now we're now we're painfully dependent on it. That's exactly. You know, but, you know, I think the hydrogen, it's out there and I just barely thought of this. But even if you are like, hardcore, like gas only, I will never buy any kind of, like, anything else for car or bike.

00;43;40;10 - 00;43;55;14

Think about it. The more options there are, the more competition there is for gas. It's going to drive the prices down because if more people start buying hydrogen gas, it's going to be like, Hey, we're not making as much money. Well, I guess I could increase prices too. But then they're making it less because more people will be more inclined to switch.

00;43;55;21 - 00;44;16;25

Yeah, especially if hydrogen becomes cheaper. But it could also potentially drive the gas prices down because the demand would be lower for gasoline. Yeah. So it could be a benefit for everyone know for sure and like No I think Yeah. And it's I keep trying to find the right way to word this but yeah it's just like it doesn't have to be one or the other.

00;44;16;25 - 00;44;36;03

You can have like you're like, I think the big thing with motorcycles right, is a part of like the history of the heritage and the culture of motorcycles. Like, is the experience of riding motorcycles. Exactly. Exactly. And like, and I'm sure it's the same for car guys or classic car guys or, you know, organizers, just performance cars. Performance more performance cars.

00;44;36;03 - 00;44;55;16

Yeah. Like that's part that experience is a part of your your your hobbies. I'm not I'm not going to say culture, but that's your heritage. Yeah. Of your hobby. It's what you like. Which that's why you got into this hobby. Yeah. Yeah. You know, And so, like, you shouldn't have to. It doesn't have to be like, oh, like your love and passion is ruining the planet.

00;44;55;19 - 00;45;29;22

It's like we have ways to you. We can be better, make better machines, better technology, you know, and help the planet while still preserving kind of like that feeling that we're used to used to having with internal combustion engines. Yeah. You know, so it's, it's cool. I think people could, uh, I don't know, like write your congressmen say like, hey, like, don't, don't back and block alternative, you know, in the comments and or email us or you know DM us on Instagram at t t motorcycles on Instagram, which we should have said at the beginning.

00;45;29;22 - 00;45;54;08

But so hopefully you made it this far to hear that. Yeah, yeah. But leave us your comments. Let us know your opinions and what you think of future of motorcycling would look like. Because I'm very curious to see what the community thinks. And I'm also very curious to see what what the future holds. Basically, I know it doesn't want to leave you breaker if I just want to give a shout out to Sarah.

00;45;54;08 - 00;46;12;01

She wrote us an email asking about things to talk about for future episodes. I just want to shout out. I replied to you, Sarah, but I just want to let you know that we, um, we liked your ideas and we'll probably include that out there. Is that the one about the ceremony with the US talking about roadside kits, Right?

00;46;12;02 - 00;46;25;23

Yeah, right. We kind of briefly talked about it before, but we can kind of go over like what? What's important? Like what someone might need, might not need. Sorry, I didn't want to interrupt you, like. No, no, I got it pulled up right here. Oh, yeah. But anyways, yeah, we love hearing your emails is probably one of my biggest highlights.

00;46;25;23 - 00;46;50;19

Any time I see like, Oh my God, some person wrote us and is asking us for advice or just letting us know like which bike they ride. Yeah, it's it's awesome to hear from you guys. So I keep keep riding to us keep coming on face on on YouTube. It's I love it. It's great. We had just like what Sarah Patrick what they say you know it's just even just saying like if you have feedback for us or you know anything and we just, we really appreciate your interactions.

00;46;50;25 - 00;47;11;14

Yeah. So it's awesome. It is. It is really awesome. So thank you so much. Thanks so much for listening. I think we're pretty much you know, I think that pretty much wraps it up. Yeah, right. Oh, I did. I did have a joke. I just wanted to throw out there the irony that we are singing Kawasaki's praises for, like, continuing the future of clean energy is not lost on me.

00;47;11;14 - 00;47;31;13

That we are the ones saying that with how many jokes to make about, you know, Monster energy and like the Kyle Mobile energy, green energy energy Kawasaki is thinking ahead they are they're playing it's just a marketing they've been playing for the US for the past like however many years they've been putting out green bikes. It's just a marketing ploy, you know?

00;47;31;13 - 00;47;54;02

Yeah, that's great. I didn't think of that, but it's great. That is a great joke. Anyways, thank you so much for listening. Thank you so much for tuning and share this podcast with your friends, family members, whoever is interested in motorcycles, or just want to see two partially built up guys talk about motorcycles. Yeah. So. So, yeah. Thank you so much for watching and for listening.

00;47;54;05 - 00;48;02;17

And then we're excited to hear, to talk to you again in the future up. So we'll catch you guys later. Awesome. Thank you so much. Bye.